Szerkesztővita:Liggliluff

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Ha vitalapra írsz, vagy más szerkesztőnek hagysz üzenetet, írd alá a mondandódat a

gombbal, vagy négy hullámvonallal: ~~~~

Ha kérdésed van, keress nyugodtan a vitalapomon! Üdvözlettel: Vakondka ^vita 2015. szeptember 22., 08:52 (CEST)Válasz

Reykjavík

Legutóbbi hozzászólás: 3 évvel ezelőtt8 hozzászólás2 résztvevő

Szia!

Honnan vetted a kiejtést? misibacsi*^üzenet 2021. február 24., 12:42 (CET)Válasz

From Wiktionary:Reykjavík, giving [ˈreiːcaˌviːk]. The implementation for the pronunciation on the Hungarian article is similar to how it is for Göteborg. [eiː] is a glide, which as far as I'm aware, is „ejj” in Hungarian, and [c] is „ty”. Therefore it becomes „rejjtyavík”. It doesn't mean that is the way a Hungarian would say it, but that is the way to pronounce it in Icelandic if written in Hungarian.

Liggliluff ^vita 2021. március 3., 18:47 (CET)Válasz

[eiː] is a glide, which as far as I'm aware, is „ejj” in Hungarian - Correct.
and [c] is „ty”. - Not correct. Where does it come from? Where did you read it?

I think IPA [c] is "k" in Hungarian pronounciation.

Beside that I have a pronounciation table (written by a professional linguist) which shows how to say this word especially in Hungarian.

Why do you think that the two "k"-s in the word " Reykjavik " must be pronounced differently? misibacsi*^üzenet 2021. március 3., 19:50 (CET)Válasz

[c] is not pronounced like English hard C. [c] is the IPA symbol used for the Hungarian „ty”. For example the word „báty” is [ˈbaːc] (so read that [c] as „ty”).

If you have the Hungarian pronunciation, then add that instead in that case. Doesn't seem like popular pages have any pronunciation: Hamburg, Brüsszel, Bukarest. But it's still an improvement to add for ones that does not have a Hungarian spelling (like Reykjavík and Göteborg).

Why would the two K be pronounced differently in Icelandic? Because that's how languages work. Did you know that all three C's in "Pacific Ocean" are pronounced differently? Also, as a Hungarian speaker, you should be well aware of sounds changing. Consonant clusters agree in voicing, so „kép” plus suffix „-ben” is pronounced „kébben”, so „papban” has two P pronounced differently. „ly” and „l” are two L glyphs pronounced differently.

Liggliluff ^vita 2021. március 3., 20:05 (CET)Válasz

Maybe it is not new to you, but I'have heard that IPA-symbols are language related. I mean that any IPA sign, like [c] may mean a different sound in different languages.

You said the Hungarian word „báty” equals [ˈbaːc] symbols, but for what language?

What is the question with " Hamburg, Brüsszel, Bukarest"? Fortunately in Hungarian we say them as they are written here (that's why we do not give pronounciation in their articles).

In Hungarian there is a simple rule: "we say it as we read it". We try to use this rule with foreign names, which of course often give funny results. We give a simple pronounciation when the name seems "complicated" or "irregular" for a Hungarian reader. misibacsi*^üzenet 2021. március 3., 22:27 (CET)Válasz

It depends on how accurate you write the IPA. You have narrow and broad transcription. So the Hungarian Ü is written as /y/ and the Swedish Y is written as /y/, but comparing these two charts: Hungarian, Swedish, the Hungarian Ü /y/ is closer to the Swedish U /ʉ/. So you are right that there can be slight differences between languages. However, the chosen sounds must be close enough. You can't transcribe the Hungarian Y with /u/ or /ɪ/ or /ɛ/, that would be too far off.

So the Hungarian and Icelandic /c/ might not sound exactly the same, but I'm certain that transcribing /c/ as /k/ would be very wrong, especially since both Hungarian and Icelandic has /c/–/k/ distinction. So you can say „báty” equals [ˈbaːc] in Hungarian-based IPA, but it should still be close enough to the intended sounds in IPA. Since both Icelandic and Hungarian makes a /c/–/k/ distinction, writing the Icelandic /c/ as Hungarian Ty keeps the information that this sound is different from the Icelandic /k/ written as K.

I also didn't ask about those cities, more made an observation. But as I suspected, those are written in Hungarian already, and would be read as written, so no guide needed. Reykjavík and Göteborg are not said as written, well, at least if you want to say it like it should be, since those don't have Hungarian names (you could say /ɡœtɛˌborɡ/ I guess). If the Hungarian spelling was „Rejkjavík” then that would be different, then that is how you say it in Hungarian. (To be fair, I have not disagreed with you on how it's said in Hungarian, only that /c/ and /k/ are different.)

Liggliluff ^vita 2021. március 3., 22:50 (CET)Válasz

You are right about /c/–/k/ distinction, and probably right that /ty/ would be closer to the original sound in Icelandic. However - I don't know if I say it properly - in Hungarian readers there is a "swing" to read a familiar letter with a familiar sound. So, if they see a "k" they will say /k/ (and it is with other familiar letters, too). In case of "c", they probably would say /k/ or /s/ (like "c" in "Barcelona"). Maybe not all sound "correct" in grammatical terms.

Yes, "Hamburg, Brüsszel, Bukarest" are already written in Hungarian (so, they are written nor Munich, Brussels nor Buchuresti to the Hungarian reader). Maybe they are close enough to the originals. However, there are very different transcriptions, like in case of "Wien", when we say "Bécs", for historical reasons.

In case of Göteborg the pronounciation is already written in the article. (most Hungarian readers would read it as it would be a Hungarian word). misibacsi*^üzenet 2021. március 4., 07:26 (CET)Válasz

You are mixing up the symbols here. /x/ and [x] are used for IPA transcription, while ⟨x⟩ is defined to be for orthographical display (written out text), but "x" and „x” are fine too. So writing /ty/ is incorrect, as that would be „tü” in Hungarian. When you say:

"In case of "c", they probably would say /k/ or /s/ (like "c" in "Barcelona")"

In this case, it was written with "c" inside [c] which is IPA, and if anyone reads that as /k/, then that is incorrect. The page even says „IPA: [ˈreiːcaˌviːk]”, clearly marking it as IPA.

Yes, I took the inspiration from the Göteborg article and has helped with adding the Hungarian spelling of the Swedish pronunciation as well as IPA for Malmö, Linköping, Uppsala, Örebro as well. These 4 + Reykjavík are the only pages I've added this to. But I can stop doing it.

Liggliluff ^vita 2021. március 4., 12:16 (CET)Válasz